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Talk:Ability Efficiency
Untitled Here are the cost progressions for Ash with the Scorpion helmet, a capped 30% Streamline mod, and a capped 150% Flow mod. 25 '''= 21, 20, 20, 20, 21, 20, 20, 20, 21, 20, 20, 20, 21, 20 35 = 29, 28, 29, 28, 28, 29, 28, 28, 29, 28 100 = 81, 81, 81 By adding each cost progression sequentially we get: '''25 = 21, 41, 61, 81, 102, 122, 142, 162, 183, 203, 223, 243, 264, 284''' 35''' = 29, 57, 86, 114, 142, 171, 199, 227, 256, 284''' 100''' = 81, 162, 243 Using the multiplicative formula Base/(1+X)/(1+Y) gives results such that: 25 '''= 20.242915 35 = 28.340081 100 = 80.9716599 By adding these theoretical costs together in sequence to get a progression with the same iterations to the one above we get: '''25 = 20.2429, 40.4858, 60.7287, 80.9717, 101.2146, 121.4575, 141.7004, 161.9433, 182.1862, 202.4291, 222.6721, 242.9150, 263.1579, 283.4008''' 35''' = 28.3401, 56.6802, 85.0202, 113.3603, 141.7004, 170.0405, 198.3806, 226.7206, 255.0607, 283.4008''' 100''' = 80.9717, 161.9433, 242.9150 By rounding up these theoretical values (the same way the game does) and comparing them to the progression values from above that we see in the game, they are a perfect match. Thus it proves that Streamline and Scorpion stack multiplicatively.Brane Ded (talk) 22:27, May 9, 2013 (UTC) I went and redid all of Loki's numbers for stacking Streamline with Essence with a capped Flow mod for maximum iterations. Here's the cost progressions: 25 = 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 18, 17''' 35 = 35, 34, 35, 34, 35, 34, 35, 34, 35, 34, 35, 34, 35 100 = 69, 69, 69, 69, 69, 69 I also re-did all the math behind the additive formula and the multiplicative formula to make sure Essence did stack additively. By adding each cost progression sequentially we get: '25 '= 18, 35, 52, 69, 87, 104, 121, 138, 156, 173, 190, 207, 225, 242, 259, 276, 294, 311, 328, 345, 363, 380, 397, 414, 432, 449 50 = 35, 69, 104, 138, 173, 207, 242, 276, 311, 345, 380, 414, 449 100 = 69, 138, 207, 276, 345, 414 Using the additive formula (Base/(1+X+Y)) gives results such that: '25 '= 17.24137931 50 = 34.48275862 100 = 68.96551724 By adding these theoretical costs together in sequence to get a progression with the same iterations to the one above we get: '25 '= 17.2414, 34.4828, 51.7241, 68.9655, 86.2069, 103.4483, 120.6897, 137.9310, 155.1724, 172.4138, 189.6552, 206.8966, 224.1379, 241.3793, 258.6207, 275.8621, 293.1034, 310.3448, 327.5862, 344.8276, 362.0690, 379.3103, 396.5517, 413.7931, 431.0345, 448.2759 50 = 34.4828, 68.9655, 103.4483, 137.9310, 172.4138, 206.8966, 241.3793, 275.8621, 310.3448, 344.8276, 379.3103, 413.7931, 448.2759 100 '''= 68.9655, 137.9310, 206.8966, 275.8621, 344.8276, 413.7931 By rounding up these theoretical values (the same way the game does) and comparing them to the progression values from above that we see in the game, they are a perfect match. Thus it proves that Streamline and Essence stack additively.Brane Ded (talk) 04:00, May 8, 2013 (UTC) A user by the name of Laevateinn posted this "what Streamline does is not a reduction in power cost for modules but an increase in power Value for your warframe. It essentially makes 1 power worth 1.3 at max streamline." He also posted a restatement of an Anon's realization, saying "think of it as finding the value that when you add the percentage displayed on Streamline, is equal to your base energy cost. That then becomes your new ability cost." Thus creating the first sensible verbal description of how Power Efficiency works. --Zelklen (talk) 07:53, April 27, 2013 (UTC) An Anon posted a comment on streamline basically saying "Below 20% efficiency, my streamline has been giving me a reduction in cost, 100 -> 80, etc. and it was only at 20% and above that it started acting weird." Having tested the results, I have decided that that person was most likely mistaken. However it does raise the question of whether or not streamline at different levels works with all abilities, and Focus and Reach do not work with all abilities (Including many that deal damage, or have range). --Zelklen (talk) 20:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC) A user by the name of Brane Ded posted this "Zelklen, thought you should know that your formula combined with the Loki helmet is not wrong, rather the percentage listed on the Loki helmet is. The helmet is listed as a 14% bonus to power effeciency, it's actually 15%. If you modify the formula to read, "Cost = Base Energy Cost divided by + (X+Y)", where X is the percent power efficiency and Y is equal to 0.15 if using the Loki helmet and otherwise 0 if not using it, the values of the Streamline mod plus the Loki helmet work out perfectly. I tested this with my Loki w/ the helmet and a 30% Streamline mod using Decoy, Invisibility, and Radial Disarm, all 3 line up perfectly with the actual cost vs the formula cost rounded up using the Loki helmet's 15% value." Thus creating his formula explaining mathematically how stacking works. I have since proven the formula, and the 15% Essence Power Efficiency to be correct to the best of my knowledge. --Zelklen (talk) 20:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC) An Anon posted this "looking at the reduced cost, if you multiply it by 1.3 you get a value close to the original power cost.. 8*1.3 = 10.4 --> round down to 10 20*1.3 = 26 --> ehhh 39*1.3 = 50.7 --> round down to 50? 77*1.3 = 100.1 --> round down to 100 I guess it's some sort of ass backwards logic." which lead me to create my formula: Cost = (Base Energy Cost divided by (1 + X), where X is the percent power efficiency, and the result is rounded up. --Zelklen (talk) 20:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC) Category:User Research (Warframe) An Anon posted this "I'm not sure how much the armor decrease is, but since Loki's armor is so low I doubt it will make much of a difference. Anyway, the energy efficiency bonus for a lv3 Loki is 14% exact. Invisibility costs 43 with helmet, and Decoy costs 21.5 (yes, .5, try this with energy siphon artifact, it becomes available right in between 21 and 22). If this number changes due to updates or higher level I will comment on this post." On the Essence page. I believe I have disproved it, however it was a starting ground and has a convincing argument. --Zelklen (talk) 20:52, April 24, 2013 (UTC) A split in stacking methods? Due to a prompt from an Anon, Failtimate said on streamline " Additive stacking would result in costs of 20, 28, 20 and 80 as exact whole numbers. Multiplicative scaling, however, would predict costs of ~20.243, 28.340, 20.243 and 80.972, all of which would fit your provided data if you assume that Energy is regenerated in integers." Numbers will be crunched. --Zelklen (talk) 07:43, April 29, 2013 (UTC) Insight on the Scorpion Helmet Scorpion It has come to my attention that the supposed cost to activate an ability with the Scorpion helmet, is 105. Yet 100/0.95 = 105.263157895. Meaning that if this really were the case, it would appear to cost 106 energy. I seriously need to find someone to help me test these numbers. Streamline makes 1 energy worth 1.3 effective. So Scorpion should make 1 energy worth 1/1.05 ≈ 0.952380952, than 100/0.952380952 ≈ 105.000000042. This thought process may lead to a way to predictably calculate Scorpions Power Efficiency, and a way to better calculate Power Efficiency as a whole.--Zelklen (talk) 07:45, April 30, 2013 (UTC) Scorpion Numbers (No Energy Siphon, no energy pickups) Helmet: 25 cost, 250-223-197-171-144-118-92-65-39-13 35 cost, 250-213-176-139-102-65-28 100 cost, 250-144-39 Helmet + Streamline (30%): 25 cost, 250-229-209-189-169-148-128-108-88-67-47-27-7 35 cost, 250-221-193-164-136-108-79-51-23 100 cost, 250-169-88-7 Credit goes to Poke007, for helping me aquire these numbers. --Zelklen (talk) 06:00, May 3, 2013 (UTC) Scorpion Stacking formula My theory is that it will be: (cost / (1 + X)) / (1 + Y) I am running the Loki numbers again, and will crunch both sets and get back with the results.